Is the effort to be counter-conventional wisdom and poke holes in the armor by people who know nothing about what they are talking about…
I’m not getting into the speculation—I’m against a run because I think it’s very hard to put together that kind of operation and win with only two years in the Senate (four by the time the election is here) and I don’t see the rush for him to run.
That said, and especially since Warner is out of the race, I’d support him. No surprise there.
I agree with the writer to whom you link. Please list at least five major accomplishments that qualify Obama for office.
I’d argue that’s a reason for not running if you read my post. However, the argument that he didn’t campaign as being against the war is silly. If you notice, the post is about the media getting the story wrong. Frank Rich got the facts straight which is what I pointed out to Big Tent Dem
I’m originally from Chicago where my parents and family still live. As Democrats I urged them to vote for Obama and even sent a donation his way before his election. But afterwards, when he became an acolyte of Joe Lieberman and got all DC-insidery, I lost my respect for him entirely.
Obama is on the bottom of my presidential list along with Joe Biden.
===But afterwards, when he became an acolyte of Joe Lieberman and got all DC-insidery,
What? Seriously, how has he done this?
Please list at least five major accomplishments that qualified Bush for office.
Please list at least give major accomplishments that qualify Bush to remain in office.
Please list at least five major accomplishments that qualify Kerry for office.
Please list at least five major accomplishments that qualify Hilary Clinton for office.
Please list at least five major accomplishments that qualify John McCain for office.
Please list at least five major accomplishments required by the Constitution for office.
Not a pitch for Obama. Just tossing a turd into the “what’s he done” punchbowl.
I’ve never bought the whole “what has he accomplished?” argument. Mainly because I don’t seem to recall anyone in Congress accomplishing much of anything lately and people in the minority party are more or less prohibited from accomplishing anything.
The rest of the beefs with Obama seem like the stuff of political fundamentalists and other nitpickers to me.
David Sirota: Mr. Obama Goes To Washington
“…Although Obama said such high-profile primary endorsements were rare, a similar controversy arose a few weeks later. Just as Ned Lamont’s antiwar primary campaign against prowar Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman was gaining momentum, Obama traveled to the state to endorse Lieberman. Like the Duckworth endorsement, Obama’s move was timed to derail an insurgent, grassroots candidate. To progressives this may seem surprising, given Obama’s progressive image. But remember, according to the New York Times it is Lieberman–one of the most conservative, prowar Democrats in Washington–who is “Obama’s mentor in the Senate as part of a program in which freshman senators are paired with incumbents.”
Read the rest. I wanted to find more instances of Obama failure to live up to his pre-Senator hype but this sums it up nicely.
So because he endorsed Lieberaman in the primary, he’s now not even a consideration? I’m trying to figure this out because it’s really quite strange. He’s certainly more progressive than most of the field with the exception of Feingold. So for that one act, you’d rather choose people who are more centrist than Obama?
I’m with you, Larry. I don’t know if Obama should or shouldn’t run right now, but I will be very solidly behind him should he decide to run in ’08.
I have not agreed with everything that Obama has done in the past few years, but I can think of absolutely NO ONE better to lead this country.
Did you actually read Sirota’s piece? I was afraid that my one quote would define the whole of my position but there are a dozen instances pointed out by Sirota (he did sit down with Obama and intervied him for this article) that makes my point. How about this quote…
“…Obama is telling the truth–he’s not opposed to structural changes at all. However, he appears to be interested in fighting only for those changes that fit within the existing boundaries of what’s considered mainstream in Washington, instead of using his platform to redefine those boundaries. This posture comes even as polls consistently show that Washington’s definition of mainstream is divorced from the rest of the country’s (for example, politicians’ refusal to debate the war even as polls show that Americans want the troops home).
Obama’s deference to these boundaries was hammered home to me when our discussion touched on the late Senator Paul Wellstone. Obama said the progressive champion was “magnificent.” He also gently but dismissively labeled Wellstone as merely a “gadfly,” in a tone laced with contempt for the senator who, for instance, almost single-handedly prevented passage of the bankruptcy bill for years over the objections of both parties. This clarified Obama’s support for the Hamilton Project, an organization formed by Citigroup chair Robert Rubin and other Wall Street Democrats to fight back against growing populist outrage within the party. And I understood why Beltway publications and think tanks have heaped praise on Obama and want him to run for President. It’s because he has shown a rare ability to mix charisma and deference to the establishment.”
Read the article and tell me you aren’t troubled.
I am a Chicagoan, and I am for Bayh or Richardson. Obama needs to serve as a Senator before thinking about the Presidency. And what has he accomplished? List five.
ED NOTE: Repeating yourself instead of engaging is a good way to get deleted for trolling.
==ead the article and tell me you aren’t troubled.
Do a search of the site–Sirota and I already had this argument.
The stupid part of the argument is that progressives are for sticks instead of carrots. Can you explain to me why sticks are automatically progressive?
Or perhaps you could explain how you are saying he isn’t progressive given the article doesn’t make that case? It makes the case that he doesn’t change the debate–a rather high standard for a guy who has been there for less than two years and without any key chair position.
Sirota has taken several hypocritical and cheap shots at Obama for no other reason than he can. The problem is when you boil down the argument there isn’t much there?
What is his great sin? That he isn’t Wellstone? Who running besides Feingold is even closer to Wellstone?
More importantly: would Wellstone have made a good candidate for President? I’m a huge admirer of Senator Wellstone’s life, but let’s not be unrealistic here.
Also, I think it’s not really relevant to discuss whether Obama has lived up to the hype or not. Judge him by his character, not by what some talking heads in the media had to say. If you disagree with his positions that’s fine. Holding him up the messianic wishcasting standard that became CW after the convention is more than a little unreasonable.
For the record, as a progressive myself, I’m more than comfortable with Obama’s views on most issues. I agree with him a lot more often than I disagree, that’s for sure.
Obama is the antichrist. Wonkette says so. There are a lot of really compelling arguments here.
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/barack-obama/meet-the-antichrist-209549.php
“We?re just creeped out by all the geek fanboy love for Obama, like these nerds drooling over their keyboards because he?s so smart and pretty. Stop it, goddammit. He?s just a politician who hasn?t been caught yet.”
You beat me to it, Ralph.
The scary thing is that although Wonkette is joking around, but there really is a contingent of Christians that believe Barak Obama is the Anti-Christ. No sarcasm, no irony, no hyperbole. They actually freaking think he’s a demon from the depths of Hell.
http://www.unfogged.com/archives/week_2006_10_22.html#005644
I’ve got nothing new to add to the “will he/won’t he” question, but is it possible that one of the reason’s he’s waiting to announce is to see whether he’s in the majority for the next 2 years?
If democrats take the senate, suddenly Senator Obama can start building some legislation. If he’s stuck in the minority, without an outlet for his “audacious hope”, then suddenly running for president may be much more appealing.
I would mention at least four of five of Obama’s legislative achievements but of course the response would be “that isn’t good enough.”
But since the leftwing keyboarders are so deficient at the use of the internet in doing basic research (except posting blogger junk information from Wonkette), I will try and help.
A few years back Illinois was executing innoncent people. Obama, as a minority member (the Dems were in the minority back in the 90’s) of the IL Senate, he got legislation passed and signed into law that required videotaping by law enforcement of all confessions related to capital offenses. Law enforcement and prosecutors were very much opposed to this legislation
With that said, let Obama run for President if he thinks the time is right. I haven’t seen anyone commenting here (or at other blogs such as mydd or digby) against the idea of Obama running possesing any political brilliance to bring him down.
“Obama needs to serve as a Senator before thinking about the Presidency. ”
Says who?
“”And what has he accomplished? List five.”
Why not four? Or eight? Or eleven? Five is an arbitrary number a nameless guy posting on a blog came up with that holds no basis in the Constitution, and is unmoored from reality given he sits in the minority party.
It’s the “vision thing.”
ED NOTE: Repeating yourself instead of engaging is a good way to get deleted for trolling.”
ED NOTE: Not reading the post and then making hard-guy declarative statements is a good way to look like a blowhard. No two of those sentences are the same. Ergo, not repeating.
Yes, the structure is the same. It’s a rhetorical device. I doubt I’ll get deleted.
You’re free to support Bayh and Richardson — no one’s stopping you.
As I said before, I’m not even necessarily advocating for Obama. But look, Kerry accopmplished plenty, none of which made him a good candidate and none of which would have made him a particurly good or bad president.
Bush was a governor in the state with the weakest executive in the nation. But it was the vision he outlined in his campaign that has fostered the disaster he’s become — not the center-right, reach-across-the-aisle deal maker he was as governor.
Bayh has a fine record of accomplishment. If he can articulate his record and foster a vision in a way that captures Caucus attendees and Primary voters in IA, NH and SC, then he’s in good shape.
Richardson is not going to be president. Too much to overcome.
==ED NOTE: Not reading the post and then making hard-guy declarative statements is a good way to look like a blowhard. No two of those sentences are the same. Ergo, not repeating.
Errr–the ED Note was from me as a warning about not engaging….
Mea Culpa.
To you, gracious host, first and foremost.
And secondly to anon Bayh/Richardson poster, who I mistakenly thought was bashing the substance my original post.
Sorry.
Mea Culpa.
To you, gracious host, first and foremost.
And secondly to anon Bayh/Richardson poster, who I mistakenly thought was bashing the style, rather than the substance of my original post.
Sorry.
Hate what that happens.
I agree. He’s too green.
Five accomplishments for Obama:
1. Obama-Coburn is a major accomplishment in transparency and is now law. What other Senator in the minority accomplished as much in his first two years?
2. Obama is one smart dude with deft political instincts.
3. Obama won his election by a bunch. The GOP drafted Keyes, but that’s in part b/c he scared off the stronger competition.
4. Obama’s trip to Africa was well received.
5. Obama gave a good keynote speech at the Dem Convention.
But with the GOP nominating Bush and standing by his misguided policies, they are hardly in a position to knock Obama’s qualifications for the presidency.
Besides, having more qualified people like Gore and Kerry hasn’t exactly been the winning formula.
“3. Obama won his election by a bunch. The GOP drafted Keyes, but that’s in part b/c he scared off the stronger competition.”
I know this isn’t what you’re saying, but there is an incorrect meme out there that Obama only won big because Ryan had to drop out and Keyes took his place. The fact of the matter is that a Tribune poll showed Obama up 52-30 in May. And this was before the raunchy stuff really started to come out. Obama would have won no matter who the GOP nominated.
Carl Nyberg, those are not serious accomplishments.
1. Good
2. What politician who runs for national office is not politically astute?
3. Circumstantial, and it reveals that he may not know how to deal with real competition.
4. I imagine a Kenyan visiting Kenya would enjoy themselves.
5. And this qualifies him for national office? I can list at least twenty politicians who have delivered excellent speeches in the past year.
They love Obama here in Denver. He came to town for Ed Perlmutter and they had to move the event outside because they were expecting (and got) a huge crowd.
It was beyond the “rock star” reception he’s been getting, it was, well, presidential:
http://www.squarestate.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=2811
HAHA! Obama is as Kenyan as I am German. Maybe even less, because I speak German. Nothing like revealing yourself as a closet racist.
Obama’s trip to Denver was a huge success!
http://www.squarestate.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=2811
It wasn’t the rock star treatment he usually gets, it was more presidential, with goons on the roofs and shit. There was very little doubt that should he run, Colorado will deliver its burgeoning load of delegates to him, while Bill Richardson struggles with a reelection campaign and delivering Patsy Madrid’s seat at home.
HAHA! Obama is as Kenyan as I am German. Maybe even less, because I speak German. Nothing like revealing yourself as a closet racist.
Obama’s trip to Denver was a huge success!
http://www.squarestate.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=2811
It wasn’t the rock star treatment he usually gets, it was more presidential, with goons on the roofs and shit. There was very little doubt that should he run, Colorado will deliver its burgeoning load of delegates to him, while Bill Richardson struggles with a reelection campaign and delivering Patsy Madrid’s seat at home.
For me Sen. Obama’s biggest achievement is that the possibility of an Obama presidential candidacy makes the extreme right wing of the Republican party poop their pants.
They know that his brand of thoughtful communication is kryptonite to the formula that has lead them to victory of late.