Comments on: Earth to Tribune: There is a Recourse http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/ Illinois, From Misery Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:33:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: leo http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14657 leo Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:49:28 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14657 It's 'Temper-tantrum' democracy. Not good for the long term. Ugh, Quinn came out for it. It’s ‘Temper-tantrum’ democracy. Not good for the long term.

Ugh, Quinn came out for it.

]]> By: justaguytoo http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14602 justaguytoo Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:07:48 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14602 Recall plays into cowardly oppositional funded attempts and to weaselly astroturf every issue that they can gain traction on. I do not want to be approached by an endless line clipboard waving zelots, turning politics into an never ending season. I'm too busy trying to earn a living. Impeachment brings an established framework with it. So let's see who's got the goods and the votes and clean enough in their own lives to bring up impeachment. Recall plays into cowardly oppositional funded attempts and to weaselly astroturf every issue that they can gain traction on. I do not want to be approached by an endless line clipboard waving zelots, turning politics into an never ending season. I’m too busy trying to earn a living.
Impeachment brings an established framework with it. So let’s see who’s got the goods and the votes and clean enough in their own lives to bring up impeachment.

]]> By: leo http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14077 leo Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:06:48 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14077 P.S. And while I'm one the subject, this kind of process truly undermines democracy. It makes in effect the process of holding office a permanent election where those with the means can boot you out at any dip in your popularity. Politics in Illinois is bad enough. I can't imagine why we would want to go for the California model. P.S. And while I’m one the subject, this kind of process truly undermines democracy.

It makes in effect the process of holding office a permanent election where those with the means can boot you out at any dip in your popularity.

Politics in Illinois is bad enough. I can’t imagine why we would want to go for the California model.

]]> By: leo http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14076 leo Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:57:43 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-14076 Totally agree with Larry. This would be nothing but a recipe for permanent electoral chaos. People in favor of this always imagine it's only going to be used against the guys they don't like. Soon enough they find it'll be used against the guys they like as well. Frankly, I'd rather take my lessons in democracy from some other source than the Editorial Board of the Chicago Tribune. Totally agree with Larry. This would be nothing but a recipe for permanent electoral chaos.

People in favor of this always imagine it’s only going to be used against the guys they don’t like. Soon enough they find it’ll be used against the guys they like as well.

Frankly, I’d rather take my lessons in democracy from some other source than the Editorial Board of the Chicago Tribune.

]]> By: ArchPundit http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13866 ArchPundit Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:58:25 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13866 I'm pretty good with that. If nothing else they can just override the clown and move on. I’m pretty good with that. If nothing else they can just override the clown and move on.

]]> By: grand old partisan http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13865 grand old partisan Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:52:58 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13865 All good points. How about this idea: if they can't agree on a budget by May 31, a gubernatorial elections will be held that fall and 4 tops are permanently removed from their leadership posts. All good points. How about this idea: if they can’t agree on a budget by May 31, a gubernatorial elections will be held that fall and 4 tops are permanently removed from their leadership posts.

]]> By: ArchPundit http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13863 ArchPundit Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:41:55 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13863 I'm not a fan of direct accountability mid-term. It tends to divert work from creating some sort of compromise and often results in nothing better. There are a bunch of reasons, but if we were going to do something like that why wouldn't we call for all new elections. The situation happens in the reverse a lot in Latin America and where the President can dissolve the assembly. What happens though is that with one branch sticking around, usually the same problems crop up. I would go for a situation where we call early elections for both the Legislature and the Executive. Keeping an ally like Jones in place while replacing the Governor might not change anything. Calling for all new elections would be far more effective and create a better likelihood someone could govern. Ultimately though, we are a liberal Democrat and conservative Republican arguing over how to get rid of Rod Blagojevich which is amusing in itself. I’m not a fan of direct accountability mid-term. It tends to divert work from creating some sort of compromise and often results in nothing better.

There are a bunch of reasons, but if we were going to do something like that why wouldn’t we call for all new elections. The situation happens in the reverse a lot in Latin America and where the President can dissolve the assembly. What happens though is that with one branch sticking around, usually the same problems crop up.

I would go for a situation where we call early elections for both the Legislature and the Executive. Keeping an ally like Jones in place while replacing the Governor might not change anything. Calling for all new elections would be far more effective and create a better likelihood someone could govern.

Ultimately though, we are a liberal Democrat and conservative Republican arguing over how to get rid of Rod Blagojevich which is amusing in itself.

]]> By: grand old partisan http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13862 grand old partisan Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:36:26 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13862 Fair enough. My point was simply that, contrary to what your post implies, the Tribune editorial board is aware and undestands the concept of impeachment. Their position is the one that I outlined above: that there needs to be a recourse beyond impeachment to cover instances of gross incompetence that doesn't include actual law breaking. Bottom line: I'm not exactly the world's biggest Tribune fan, either, but let's limit our criticism of them to actual failings, not contrived ones. In response to your position: why should the Governor be able to get away with either incompetence or corruption just because the one legislator that actually likes him is the President of the Senate? Shouldn't there be some form of direct accountability to the voters? Fair enough. My point was simply that, contrary to what your post implies, the Tribune editorial board is aware and undestands the concept of impeachment. Their position is the one that I outlined above: that there needs to be a recourse beyond impeachment to cover instances of gross incompetence that doesn’t include actual law breaking. Bottom line: I’m not exactly the world’s biggest Tribune fan, either, but let’s limit our criticism of them to actual failings, not contrived ones.

In response to your position: why should the Governor be able to get away with either incompetence or corruption just because the one legislator that actually likes him is the President of the Senate? Shouldn’t there be some form of direct accountability to the voters?

]]> By: ArchPundit http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13861 ArchPundit Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:24:50 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13861 Actually, I'd argue that his attempts to subvert the legislator are illegal and impeachable--in fact, I have and suggested the Lege do just that. Obviously, Jones wouldn't go along. I'm not a fan of recalls in general because I'm not a fan of using special elections to overturn general elections. Specials are far more easy to manipulate. Impeachment has the added benefit that he couldn't run again either. Actually, I’d argue that his attempts to subvert the legislator are illegal and impeachable–in fact, I have and suggested the Lege do just that. Obviously, Jones wouldn’t go along.

I’m not a fan of recalls in general because I’m not a fan of using special elections to overturn general elections. Specials are far more easy to manipulate. Impeachment has the added benefit that he couldn’t run again either.

]]> By: grand old partisan http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13859 grand old partisan Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:11:47 +0000 http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/04/01/earth-to-tribune-there-is-a-recourse/#comment-13859 Larry, Give the Trib a little more credit here. Earlier in the editorial they specifically say: “Illinois should join the 18 states that give frustrated voters—as opposed to lawmakers acting in impeachment proceedings—the power to remove inept politicians from office” ‘Recall’ isn’t about removing the governor for “violating the Illinois Constitution or engaging in illegal conduct.” It’s about removing a governor who, as the Trib puts it, who “can't, or won't, do his job.” Governing by press release, antagonizing the legislature, and obsessively pursuing the same proposals even after they are repeatedly rejected, to the neglect of other critical issues – none of this is illegal. But it is darned good justification for removing someone from office. And, as it stands now, when someone (i.e. Blago) is recklessly stalemating the government like this, voters have no choice but to wait for the next election. Larry,

Give the Trib a little more credit here. Earlier in the editorial they specifically say:

“Illinois should join the 18 states that give frustrated voters—as opposed to lawmakers acting in impeachment proceedings—the power to remove inept politicians from office”

‘Recall’ isn’t about removing the governor for “violating the Illinois Constitution or engaging in illegal conduct.” It’s about removing a governor who, as the Trib puts it, who “can’t, or won’t, do his job.”

Governing by press release, antagonizing the legislature, and obsessively pursuing the same proposals even after they are repeatedly rejected, to the neglect of other critical issues – none of this is illegal. But it is darned good justification for removing someone from office. And, as it stands now, when someone (i.e. Blago) is recklessly stalemating the government like this, voters have no choice but to wait for the next election.

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