Something to Think On
Jeremiah Wright criticized America for not being inclusive and metaphorically said God should damn America.
Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and many other right wing preachers say literally God damned America for being tolerant and sent hurricanes or terrorists.
Which is worse?
March 14th, 2008 at
Dude, the old white guys are always right…aren’t they?
Bush (et al) was right about the war, right?
Bush (et al) are right about torture, right?
Bush (et al) are right about the surge, right?
Bush (et al) are right that there’s no recession (depression), right?
Bush (et al) are right.
That says it all.
And the right is always wrong.
March 14th, 2008 at
“Old white guys”?!
Why is it OK for you to be derogatory to whites or for you to profile conservatives? You are acting like a racist pig and it is not excuseable just because it is against whites.
Last I checked Condi Rice and Alberto Gonzalez were just as conservative as Bush, but they don’t fit your profile.
You don’t end hate by spouting it. Dr. King did a hell of a lot more for people of color than Malcolm X or the Nation of Islam ever could.
You are no better than the conservative talk radio callers that bash liberals.
March 14th, 2008 at
Arch, the first sounds like a request, while the second is apparently an observation of some sort. If effective, maybe the first is worse?
March 14th, 2008 at
Sorry guys, apparently the snark in my comment didn’t come through well enough.
Didn’t mean to offend and it was most definitely not meant as racism. It was meant as snark.
March 14th, 2008 at
I thought your snarky post was wonderful, MsJoanne
I am 1)old, 2)white, and 3)male.
Since I am therefore always right, I must tell you than in no way did you offend me.
And to answer Larry’s original question, the rantings of Parsley, Hagee, Falwell and Robertson are far worse than Wright.
I find it interesting that the media now wants to review all sermons of Pastor Wright. That wouldn’t be a bad thing, but let’s all remember Huckabee sealed ALL of his sermons from public scrutiny. Sure, review all of Wright, but then lets also review all the Huckster’s sermons and all the others (although Hagee’s will be enough)
March 14th, 2008 at
I am old, white, and female (two out of three ain’t bad) and I listened to what Wright said and I agree with it. And, from the clip I heard, I agree completely and wholeheartedly.
We reap what we sowed. We have attacked humans around the globe and it is coming home to roost. And that was where the Damn America came from. Hillary has never been called a ni-double-ger and does not know what it’s like to be black in America. Not a single thing there to disagree with.
We as a country have interfered with so many other nations and usually to the detriment of the people of that country. Abject poverty creates a level of desperation most of us cannot relate to. Cure poverty and you cure terrorism. We have no standing for righteous indignation. And if I have to watch Boehner cry one more time over whatever he is incensed about that second…Christ on a crutch he’s more of a drama queen than any woman I know…I am going to puke.
Nope, I couldn’t dispute a single thing he said.
Then there are the old white guys (Hagee, Parsley [whom I think tastes pretty good in chicken soup], Falwell, Robertson, and I will raise you a Pat Buchanan and James Dobson), and I think you get which ones *I* think are worse.
And, #2, conservatives are a$$$holes. The REAL conservatives have left the Greedy Old Pervert party because they are NOT fiscally conscientious, they are completely hypocritical, they don’t give one crap about people and, in my less than humble opinion, they are a useless waste of oxygen.
Don’t like my words? Snark or not. Tough $hit.
March 15th, 2008 at
Though there is some truth to the statements that Wright made, there is something that is still troubling about this. I get upset about the right wings preachers mixing politics and the pulpit, and the same rules apply here. There is a difference between “preaching a social gospel” and making a political endorsement.
Rev. Wright has every right to express his anger about the racism he has experienced in his lifetime. WE have every right to question where the lines between church and state are drawn and how strongly we should draw them. I
March 15th, 2008 at
Yeah, MsJoanne
way to go for it.
Yeah, we have most of the right-wing zealots supporting McCain without scrutiny.
But we had Huckabee running for months and the media giving him a pass when he said “My sermons are private.” His own freaking words.
And now they want to evaluate a candidate based upon the words of a FRIEND who is a preacher.
Double Standard. Double Standard. Double Standard.
I don’t care if one tries to spin it as race, sexism, or ideological bent. Regardless of spin it is a double standard.
March 15th, 2008 at
I’m not sure if Wright is a bigot.
I am sure there are excellent reasons for a black man not to like white people.
Does that qualify? Probably not.
There is no doubt that Hagee and et. al are and they believe, wrongly, that America is a Christian nation and have been working overtime to convince us that the nation was founded on biblical principles.
Last time I looked, the US Constitution was an entirely secular document with no mention of God, Jesus, Christian, or any other supreme being.
The omission of God from the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers intention was to keep government separate from religion.
March 15th, 2008 at
There is a difference between telling someone that you fear they may suffer consequences or punishment for their wrong actions, and telling them that you WANT them to suffer those consequences or that you hope they will.
The statements of Falwell, Robertson, et al., from what I can tell, fall into the first category. They did not say (as far as I know) that they WANTED America to be divinely punished for what they believe to be its sins, or that they were calling upon God to do so. Rather they were stating their personal conviction that God was or possibly could be doing so. They see their job as trying to avert such “judgment.”
Rev. Wright’s statements, however, sound as if they fall in the second category — he was saying that he wanted America to be “damned” for its sins of discrimination. Perhaps that’s not what he really meant, he was simply being especially forceful in his rhetoric. In any event I think there is a significant difference between the two types of statements.
March 15th, 2008 at
There was no error in what Wright said. There was clear error in what Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Parsley, and their like have said.
Still, I would not want God to damn any country.
I believe there is still such thing as prophecy, and only in that case should a Christian evoke such an image as a country being damned, but unfortunately from that perspective, I agree with Wright, that America has been and still is on the wrong side. Its death embrace of capitalism, which Jesus himself said precluded service to God, would be enough all by itself.
The scripture says that there is a test for prophets. The word of a true prophets is also true; the word of a false prophet is false. The others were speaking falsely as they spoke. But nothing Wright said was anything but true, and by my estimation, America is not doing so well these days – the jury is out on whether America still might be damned by God.
But again, since I live here, I’m not rooting for its damnation; I’m praying for its undeserved salvation – Christians call that salvation through grace, and believe there is no other kind – just as I believe Jesus would have me do.
In fact, I’d guess Wright’s comments were offered in exactly the same spirit. Not hateful, but hopeful.
“Now faith, hope, and love abide. But the greatest of these is love.”
For the record, I’m a middle aged African-American, Ph.D., in a technical discipline, a “born-again” evangelical charismatic fundamental Christian, also a former atheist, but long since a socialist – because Jesus was a socialist and the early Christian church were communists in modern terms (don’t take my word for it – ask Ludwig von Mises).
Jesus used the word _basileia_ maybe more than any other. I think it means something about “government as infrastructure”, or “government that provides”, despite its original translation into English as “kingdom.” He was not talking about “church” – that would be a different word (ekklesia) which he used only twice that I know of. Read the passage in Matthew 6:24-33 _objectively_, with this alternate interpretation of Jesus’ perspective. It might be surprising…
March 15th, 2008 at
I want to emphasize that I do not personally agree with anything Falwell or Robertson or Hagee said about America being divinely punished. I was simply saying what seemed to be motivating them. Perhaps Wright was doing the same thing, as John OneOne says.
March 15th, 2008 at
In a later post I expand on this, but I think the context is missing in terms of Wright. I believe John and I are making fairly similar arguments if you take a look at that post.
March 17th, 2008 at
[...] Archpundit writes: Jeremiah Wright criticized America for not being inclusive and metaphorically said God should damn America. Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and many other right wing preachers say literally God damned America for being tolerant and sent hurricanes or terrorists. Which is worse? [...]
March 17th, 2008 at
Honestly, some you are insane! Why do you live here? This isn’t one of those “Love it or leave it statements”. I really want to know why some of you continue to live in such a horrible place – so horrible that you want God to damn it and would be happy if it happened.
Some of these posts are so outlandish that Hillary and Obama would run for the hills if asked to comment on them. What a vile mixture of ignorance and arrogance on display. Encouraging stereotypes of any color only promotes bigotry and racism.
How can you honestly claim to take the high road against conservatives when you act no better? Defending wrong statements by attacking someonelses as being “more” wrong is non-responsive and inexcusable.
At least johnOneOne and Bookworm make points and add something to the discussion. You can choose to agree or disagree or provide a counter arguement but it is clearly a different level of discourse than many of the other posts here.
MsJoanne you claim it was a “snark” but you go on to clearly show it wasn’t.
So if you and Rev Wright are really hoping for America to be damned, then I’ll gladly put “told you so” on your headstones when it happens.