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	<title>Comments on: When Did Gore and Kerry Get Sainted?</title>
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	<link>http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/01/01/when-did-gore-and-kerry-get-sainted/</link>
	<description>Illinois, From Misery</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rob_N</title>
		<link>http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/01/01/when-did-gore-and-kerry-get-sainted/#comment-6740</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob_N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.89.31.63/~archpund/2008/01/01/when-did-gore-and-kerry-get-sainted/#comment-6740</guid>
		<description>The way I read the Obama quote &lt;a href="http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/1/112349/1037/615/428561" rel="nofollow"&gt;Kos is dissing&lt;/a&gt; ("I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats -- we've done that in 2004, 2000") is that Obama is decrying the partisanship, even as he's engaging it through the manner Larry described.

I didn't take it as a hard slam against Gore and Kerry, per se, but about the divisiveness of modern elections. One of those look-over-here rhetorical strategies to gloss over his own strategy of speaking to his values (which differ from conservatives').

That said, what's wrong with pointing out an altruistic tendency in saying he could've been a trial lawyer and made millions but chose other community-based pursuits instead... Obama's basically saying Edwards' career was not "progressive" enough. That is one point conservatives make which is an Edwards weakness (until explained).

It &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a primary after all.

--

SCAM needs himself a little &lt;a href="http://www.sfreviews.com/docs/Larry%20Niven%20and%20Jerry%20Pournelle_1993_The%20Gripping%20Hand.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Niven/Pournelle sci-fi&lt;/a&gt; if he's going to keep writing triptych points...

As for fighting for votes, we can't predict the future (Kerry did say he'd fight) but &lt;a href="http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/1/141253/2971/397/428795" rel="nofollow"&gt;Georgia noted&lt;/a&gt; this quote from attorney Obama: "If for any reason this thing is close, we will fight it tooth and nail till the end. The nice thing is, I'm a voting-rights attorney as well as a civil rights attorney."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I read the Obama quote <a href="http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/1/112349/1037/615/428561" rel="nofollow">Kos is dissing</a> (&#8221;I don&#8217;t want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats &#8212; we&#8217;ve done that in 2004, 2000&#8243;) is that Obama is decrying the partisanship, even as he&#8217;s engaging it through the manner Larry described.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t take it as a hard slam against Gore and Kerry, per se, but about the divisiveness of modern elections. One of those look-over-here rhetorical strategies to gloss over his own strategy of speaking to his values (which differ from conservatives&#8217;).</p>
<p>That said, what&#8217;s wrong with pointing out an altruistic tendency in saying he could&#8217;ve been a trial lawyer and made millions but chose other community-based pursuits instead&#8230; Obama&#8217;s basically saying Edwards&#8217; career was not &#8220;progressive&#8221; enough. That is one point conservatives make which is an Edwards weakness (until explained).</p>
<p>It <i>is</i> a primary after all.</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p>SCAM needs himself a little <a href="http://www.sfreviews.com/docs/Larry%20Niven%20and%20Jerry%20Pournelle_1993_The%20Gripping%20Hand.htm" rel="nofollow">Niven/Pournelle sci-fi</a> if he&#8217;s going to keep writing triptych points&#8230;</p>
<p>As for fighting for votes, we can&#8217;t predict the future (Kerry did say he&#8217;d fight) but <a href="http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/1/141253/2971/397/428795" rel="nofollow">Georgia noted</a> this quote from attorney Obama: &#8220;If for any reason this thing is close, we will fight it tooth and nail till the end. The nice thing is, I&#8217;m a voting-rights attorney as well as a civil rights attorney.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: so-called "Austin Mayor"</title>
		<link>http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/01/01/when-did-gore-and-kerry-get-sainted/#comment-6741</link>
		<dc:creator>so-called "Austin Mayor"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.89.31.63/~archpund/2008/01/01/when-did-gore-and-kerry-get-sainted/#comment-6741</guid>
		<description>AP: "When Did Gore and Kerry Get Sainted?"

My problem with them is that neither Gore2K nor Kerry04 were willing to fight to the bitter-end for the White House when push came to shove in Florida and Ohio, respectively.  I think it is terrible that we have have post-voting election battles, but we do.  And if only one side shows up to fight those battles, then that side will always, always, ALWAYS win.

That said, I like the Nobel-laureate version of Albert Gore.  Partly for the moxie he showed by dusting himself off and taking on another critical challenge.  And partly because I am confident that he would kick Gore2K's ass for being a goddamn wuss.

My biggest fear about Obama is that he may not have the heart to fight an ugly post-election battle to have votes counted.  Both his concern for long-term political viability -- "We'll get 'em next time" -- and his campaign messaging -- bridging the partisan divide -- indicate that he would choose to live to fight another day rather than go to the mattresses in the event of a controversial finish.

By contrast, I have no doubt that Hillary Clinton would fight like a cornered rat to get her votes counted if we see a replay of Florida or Ohio.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure that she could ever do well enough a general election -- especially if there is an independent Bloomberg run -- to make a fight over a few thousand votes worth while.

On the other hand -- the third hand for those of you counting -- Edwards is still smarting from Kerry folding his hand so soon in 2004.  Word is that Edwards wanted to fight but Kerry had had enough.  Edwards knows that this is his last go-around at this particular rodeo and has shown a willingness to stay in the battle -- Mrs. E has gone all-in on this hand too, contra. Michelle Obama  -- that would serve him well if he makes it to the general election.  Edwards' fighting spirit is almost enough to make me vote for Another White Guy for president.

-- SCAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP: &#8220;When Did Gore and Kerry Get Sainted?&#8221;</p>
<p>My problem with them is that neither Gore2K nor Kerry04 were willing to fight to the bitter-end for the White House when push came to shove in Florida and Ohio, respectively.  I think it is terrible that we have have post-voting election battles, but we do.  And if only one side shows up to fight those battles, then that side will always, always, ALWAYS win.</p>
<p>That said, I like the Nobel-laureate version of Albert Gore.  Partly for the moxie he showed by dusting himself off and taking on another critical challenge.  And partly because I am confident that he would kick Gore2K&#8217;s ass for being a goddamn wuss.</p>
<p>My biggest fear about Obama is that he may not have the heart to fight an ugly post-election battle to have votes counted.  Both his concern for long-term political viability &#8212; &#8220;We&#8217;ll get &#8216;em next time&#8221; &#8212; and his campaign messaging &#8212; bridging the partisan divide &#8212; indicate that he would choose to live to fight another day rather than go to the mattresses in the event of a controversial finish.</p>
<p>By contrast, I have no doubt that Hillary Clinton would fight like a cornered rat to get her votes counted if we see a replay of Florida or Ohio.  Unfortunately, I&#8217;m not sure that she could ever do well enough a general election &#8212; especially if there is an independent Bloomberg run &#8212; to make a fight over a few thousand votes worth while.</p>
<p>On the other hand &#8212; the third hand for those of you counting &#8212; Edwards is still smarting from Kerry folding his hand so soon in 2004.  Word is that Edwards wanted to fight but Kerry had had enough.  Edwards knows that this is his last go-around at this particular rodeo and has shown a willingness to stay in the battle &#8212; Mrs. E has gone all-in on this hand too, contra. Michelle Obama  &#8212; that would serve him well if he makes it to the general election.  Edwards&#8217; fighting spirit is almost enough to make me vote for Another White Guy for president.</p>
<p>&#8211; SCAM</p>
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