ArchPundit

Illinois, From Misery
Subscribe
  • Home
  • Contact Information & Blog Bio
  • Advertising Liberally Blogs

Because, you know, he’s answering the question

December 07, 2006 By: ArchPundit Category: Uncategorized

Chris Bowers jumps on the claims that Obama is triangulating by taking everything he says and turning it into some sort of major speech instead of a decent answer in a town hall–but again, the quote is clipped.

We’re now in a packed room at Eastern Illinois University. A woman stands up and tosses Obama what I assume she thinks is a bit of red meat. What, she asks, does the senator think of the pervasiveness of religion in public discourse these days? Obama doesn’t take the bait.

“No one would say that Dr. King should leave his moral vision at the door before getting involved in public-policy debate,” he answers. “He says, `All God’s children.’ `Black man and white man, Jew and Gentile, Protestant and Catholic.’ He was speaking religiously. So we have to remember that not every mention of God is automatically threatening a theocracy.

Chris criticizes Obama’s response because no one suggested it was threatening theocracy, but there is a simple point here–Bill Clinton’s language was no less religious than George Bush’s. In fact, one of Clinton’s speechwriter’s pointed this out while doing a book on Presidential religious rhetoric. So the premise of the question rests upon the notion that religious discourse has become far greater—which isn’t true from anything I know. I take issue with how Bush uses religion, but the amount of discourse hasn’t changed much if at all.

Chris also leaves off the paragraphs in the story that follow:

“On the other hand,” he continues, “religious folks need to understand that separation of church and state isn’t there just to protect the state from religion, but religion from the state.” He points out that, historically speaking, the most ardent American supporters of the separation between church and state were Evangelicals—and Jefferson and Franklin. “Who were Deists, by the way,” he adds, “but challenged all kinds of aspects of Christianity. They didn’t even necessarily believe in the divinity of Christ, which is not something that gets talked about a lot.”

Back in the car, he elaborates on the kinds of themes he tries to communicate to his constituents. “To me, the issue is not are you centrist or are you liberal,” he says. “The issue to me is, Is what you’re proposing going to work? Can you build a working coalition to make the lives of people better? And if it can work, you should support it whether it’s centrist, conservative, or liberal.”

What’s interesting about the complaints about Obama supposedly triangulating is that each example is taken from speeches or venues that are not soundbite based, but actually thoughtful statements and points in a larger context of a speech. The questioner at this venue suggested by the very premise of the question that religious rhetoric is increasing and there is too much, but the response isn’t one of attacking the woman, but putting religious rhetoric in context of history and then moving from rhetoric to problems of religious entanglement with government–one in which he strongly supports the separation of church and state.

2 Responses to “ Because, you know, he’s answering the question ”

  1. # 1 Tom B. Says:
    December 7th, 2006 at

    Larry, stop trying to use reason. They’re (and I mean only a select few like Sirota, Stoller and apparently now Bowers) not interested. Only ideas and events that confirm their own deeply pereceptions of Barack’s reality.

    They’re inside his head and they know everything.

  2. # 2 jerry 101 Says:
    December 8th, 2006 at

    That same article also featured Obama taking on the DLC. Also easily forgotten by the “disappointed by Obama” clique.

← It Must Hurt to be as Dumb as Joe Klein
Even More →

  • blog advertising is good for you
  • Places To Find Me

    • Illinois Reason
    • Prairie State Blue
    • Daily Kos – ArchPundit
    • Show Me Progress
    • Illinoize
    • The Vital Voice
  • Illinois Blogs

    • Austin Mayor
    • Bridget in the Sixth
    • Progress Illinois
    • John Fritchey’s Open House
    • Peoria Pundit
    • OneMan
    • IlliniPundit
    • DJWinfo
    • Ellen of the Tenth
    • The Inside Dope
    • The 11th Hour
    • Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights
    • Illinois Democratic Network
    • Illinois Sierra Club
    • Move On and Shut Up
    • Where There’s a Will…
    • NarciBlog
    • Proviso Probe
    • Speaking Liberally
    • Reverse Spin
    • Russ Stewart
    • WurfWhile
    • Illinois Campaign for Political Reform
    • Spontaneous Solutions
    • McHenry County Blog
    • Illinois EnviroBlog
    • CTA Tattler
    • Gapers Block
    • Public Affairs
  • Illinois Press

    • The Capitol Fax
    • Change of Subject
    • Lynn Sweet
    • Illinois Issues
    • Illinois Channel
    • Sweeny Report
    • The Chicagoist
    • The Swamp
    • Clout Street
    • Clout City
    • News Bites
    • WCPT-820 AM
  • Illinois Specific

    • Daily Kos – Illinois
    • Stateline – Illinois
    • State Action – Illinois
  • Non-Political Illinois

    • Chicago Uncommon
  • BlogFathers

    • Daily Kos
    • MyDD
  • Progressive Organizations

    • Think Progress
    • Blog for Our Future
    • AFL-CIO
    • Working Life
    • CREW
    • AFSCME
    • Drum Major Institute
  • Liberal Blogs

    • Eschaton
    • Balloon Juice
    • Lawyers, Guns, and Money
    • AmericaBlog
    • Booman Tribune
    • Crooks and Liars
    • Hullabaloo
    • Firedoglake
    • OpenLeft
    • Street Prophets
    • Oliver Willis
    • Jesus’ General
    • The Poorman
    • Sadly No!
    • Talking Points Memo
    • TPM Election Central
    • TPM MuckRaker
    • TPM Horse’s Mouth
    • Pandagon
    • Cogitamusblog
    • Informed Comment
    • Brad DeLong
    • Pam’s House Blend
    • Seeing the Forest
    • The Reality Based Community
    • Rude Pundit
    • TalkLeft
    • Whiskey Fire
    • Cliff Schecter
  • Liberal Press Blogs

    • Matt Yglesias
    • Kevin Drum
    • Tapped
    • Washington Monthly
    • Paul Krugman
    • The ITT List
    • Unclaimed Territory
    • Ezra Klein
    • Beat The Press
    • Altercation
    • The Intersection
    • David Corn
    • Campaign Matters
    • Brave New Films
    • Chris Hayes
    • James Wolcott
    • Rachel Maddow
    • Spark – Air America
    • The Young Turks
    • Huffington Post
  • Democratic Party

    • The Stakeholder-DCCC
    • The Gavel-Speaker Pelosi
    • Kicking Ass-DNC
    • NDNBlog
    • The Democratic Strategist
    • From the Roots–DSCC
  • Political Comment-Polling

    • Political Wire
    • Pollster
    • Craig Crawford
    • The Hotline On Call
    • Blogometer
    • Ground Game
    • Political Arithmetik
    • Campaigns & Elections
    • CQ Polltracker
  • State Politics

    • Off The Kuff
    • Burnt Orange Report
    • Minnesota Campaign Report
    • Fired Up!
    • State Action
    • Progressive States Network
    • Stateline
    • The Thicket
  • Entertainment

    • The Watcher-Mo Ryan
    • Turn It Up-Greg Kot
    • OrbitCast
  • Sports

    • Trust But Verify
    • Podium Cafe
    • Bleed Cubbie Blue
  • BlogFathers

    • Daily Kos
    • MyDD
  • Democratic Party

    • From the Roots–DSCC
    • Kicking Ass-DNC
    • NDNBlog
    • The Democratic Strategist
    • The Gavel-Speaker Pelosi
    • The Stakeholder-DCCC
  • Entertainment

    • OrbitCast
    • The Watcher-Mo Ryan
    • Turn It Up-Greg Kot
  • Illinois Blogs

    • Austin Mayor
    • Bridget in the Sixth
    • CTA Tattler
    • DJWinfo
    • Ellen of the Tenth
    • Gapers Block
    • IlliniPundit
    • Illinois Campaign for Political Reform
    • Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights
    • Illinois Democratic Network
    • Illinois EnviroBlog
    • Illinois Sierra Club
    • John Fritchey’s Open House
    • McHenry County Blog
    • Move On and Shut Up
    • NarciBlog
    • OneMan
    • Peoria Pundit
    • Progress Illinois
    • Proviso Probe
    • Public Affairs
    • Reverse Spin
    • Russ Stewart
    • Speaking Liberally
    • Spontaneous Solutions
    • The 11th Hour
    • The Inside Dope
    • Where There’s a Will…
    • WurfWhile
  • Illinois Press

    • Change of Subject
    • Clout City
    • Clout Street
    • Illinois Channel
    • Illinois Issues
    • Lynn Sweet
    • News Bites
    • Sweeny Report
    • The Capitol Fax
    • The Chicagoist
    • The Swamp
    • WCPT-820 AM
  • Illinois Specific

    • Daily Kos – Illinois
    • State Action – Illinois
    • Stateline – Illinois
  • Liberal Blogs

    • AmericaBlog
    • Balloon Juice
    • Booman Tribune
    • Brad DeLong
    • Cliff Schecter
    • Cogitamusblog
    • Crooks and Liars
    • Eschaton
    • Firedoglake
    • Hullabaloo
    • Informed Comment
    • Jesus’ General
    • Lawyers, Guns, and Money
    • Oliver Willis
    • OpenLeft
    • Pam’s House Blend
    • Pandagon
    • Rude Pundit
    • Sadly No!
    • Seeing the Forest
    • Street Prophets
    • Talking Points Memo
    • TalkLeft
    • The Poorman
    • The Reality Based Community
    • TPM Election Central
    • TPM Horse’s Mouth
    • TPM MuckRaker
    • Whiskey Fire
  • Liberal Press Blogs

    • Altercation
    • Beat The Press
    • Brave New Films
    • Campaign Matters
    • Chris Hayes
    • David Corn
    • Ezra Klein
    • Huffington Post
    • James Wolcott
    • Kevin Drum
    • Matt Yglesias
    • Paul Krugman
    • Rachel Maddow
    • Spark – Air America
    • Tapped
    • The Intersection
    • The ITT List
    • The Young Turks
    • Unclaimed Territory
    • Washington Monthly
  • Non-Political Illinois

    • Chicago Uncommon
  • Places To Find Me

    • Daily Kos – ArchPundit
    • Illinois Reason
    • Illinoize
    • Prairie State Blue
    • Show Me Progress
    • The Vital Voice
  • Political Comment-Polling

    • Blogometer
    • Campaigns & Elections
    • CQ Polltracker
    • Craig Crawford
    • Ground Game
    • Political Arithmetik
    • Political Wire
    • Pollster
    • The Hotline On Call
  • Progressive Organizations

    • AFL-CIO
    • AFSCME
    • Blog for Our Future
    • CREW
    • Drum Major Institute
    • Think Progress
    • Working Life
  • Sports

    • Bleed Cubbie Blue
    • Podium Cafe
    • Trust But Verify
  • State Politics

    • Burnt Orange Report
    • Fired Up!
    • Minnesota Campaign Report
    • Off The Kuff
    • Progressive States Network
    • State Action
    • Stateline
    • The Thicket

  • blog advertising is good for you

  • blog advertising is good for you
  • Archives



ArchPundit © 2007 All Rights Reserved. Using WordPress 3.3.1 Engine
Entries and Comments.

Prosumer 1.4 made by Nurudin Jauhari